Trijicon rmr vs holosun

Poppastar said: I'm thinking of swapping out the Holosun 507C on one of my P229's with a Trijicon RMR Type 2. Holosun's height from the bottom to the dot is .65". I can't find that info for the Trijicon. I'm basically wondering if I'll need to change out my suppressor sights or can I expect the same sight picture.

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The Trijicon MRO ( See Price On Amazon - Over 341 Reviews) The Trijicon RMR ( See Price On Amazon - Over 968 Reviews) And in this Trijicon MRO vs RMR comparison, we're going to see how these two sights stack up against each other in the following categories…. Toughness And Durability. Lens Clarity And Reticle. Battery Life And ...

Calgary-based Lynx Air will take to the skies in early 2022 and be the newest ultra-low-cost airline flying above North America. We may be compensated when you click on product lin...Thanks for the info. I just struck a deal on eBay for a new sealed Holosun 507K for $249 shipped. I think that's a really fair price. Now to sell the newly replaced Romeo zero with shroud Sig just sent back to me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.Trijicon RMR vs Holosun Optics Open vs Closed Emitter exit_to_app Log In person_add Create Account email [email protected] phone ‪(570) 415-0459 Contact ... The Holosun 507 Comp is an RMR footprint optic and a …The Holosun 508t ( Check Price And Reviews On Amazon) The Trijicon RMR ( Check Price On Optics Planet - Over 110 Reviews) So in this Holosun 508t Vs RMR article, we're going to compare these two sights in the following six categories…. Durability And Toughness. Lens Clarity And Reticle. Size Comparison.Its built-in motion sensor is not as efficient as other optics like the Holosun 507C, which uses the same technology with a smaller CR1632 battery that can last up to 50,000 hrs. ... Trijicon RMR VS Trijicon SRO. You Might Also Like. Holosun 507 COMP Review - Better Than Trijicon SRO March 27, 2024. Leupold LCO VS EOtech EXPS3 - Optic ...I was as surprised by everyone that Holosun was the first to release an optic aimed at micro-compact handguns. The Holosun EPS is brand new and has quickly found a place on my daily carry gun. On more traditional optics, like the Trijicon RMR and Holosun 507C, the emitter sits out in the open.

How does the Holosun 507C compare to more expensive options like the Trijicon RMR? The Holosun 507C offers a compelling alternative to more expensive options like the Trijicon RMR. While it may not have the same brand recognition, it excels in terms of features, durability, and price point.The Kimber KHX and AEIGIS models come with either a Vortex Venom or Trijicon RMR footprint plate. You will need to make sure your Kimber 1911 has the Trijicon RMR plate .. you can see the plate here on Kimbers Website. In this guide we are going to recommend Holosun optics that fit the Trijicon RMR plate with no modification needed.Trijicon SRO - Largest Field Of View. The Trijicon SRO's larger window size speeds up aiming at the target compared to the original RMR. It's so spacious that you won't miss or lose the dot during follow-up shots. Bigger Window - Quickly aim and regain the sight picture after follow-up shots. When you first use it, you'll wish you had it sooner.Initial impressions are: Tint is much less annoying on the 507K. For a given (perceived) brightness match, the RMR cc dot is a little sharper to my eyes (and I have slight astigmatism in my dominant eye) (2MOA for Holosun vs 3.5MOA on RMR cc). The edges on the RMR body are softer (good for smashing into my belly)guacamoleburger. OP • 1 yr. ago. I haven’t seen comparisons of these two optics so I figured I should make a post showing a side by side comparison. Info: Non-solar, non-carry EPS. RM06 type 2. Glock 19. 6.

See the detailed comparison of Holosun 507c and 508t. 2. Trijicon RMR. The Trijicon RMR (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex) sight is a well-known alternative to the Holosun HE508T-X2. The RMR is renowned for its durability and reliability, featuring a forged aluminum housing that can withstand harsh conditions.Holosun 407C X2 vs 507C X2 Footprint. Both the 407C X2 and the 507C X2 have an RMR footprint. So if you have a slide cut for a Trijicon RMR or and adapter plate that lets you fit a Trijicon RMR then this will fit on it with no problem.Glock 43X MOS Red Dot - Top 7 List…. The best Glock 43X MOS red dot is the Holosun 507K X2. It's the best because it's a rugged and reliable optic. In addition to that, it's packed with useful features (like 3 reticle options and ultra-long battery life), and it's also fairly affordable. The only downside is that you will need an ...Holosun makes a superior product these days. The only thing the RMR has going for it are its patented corners, but these are solved by modifying the design as with the 508T. The RMR is a dinosaur at this point and Trijicon is just sitting on their asses still trying to cash in on a decade-old design whilst failing to innovate.

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This long term review of the Holosun 508T X2, aka Holosun HE508T, optic goes over the information that you want to know about, why should you buy this over ...This difference makes the HS507C-X2 slightly lighter but potentially less durable than the HE508T-X2. See the detailed comparison of Holosun 507c and 508t. 2. Trijicon RMR. The Trijicon RMR (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex) sight is a well-known alternative to the Holosun HE508T-X2. The RMR is renowned for its durability and …Holosun 507k Trijicon RMRcc; Reticle: 2 MOA dot and a 32 MOA ring: 3.25 MOA dot: Weight: 1.5 oz: 1 oz: Battery life: 50,000 hours: 4 years continuous use: Price: ... Holosun 507k vs. RMRcc: The Verdict. Choosing between the two optics, it's important to consider your needs as a shooter. If versatility in reticle options and longer battery ...RED DOT Trijicon RMR Type 2 or Holosun 507C X2. Hello all, I have basically no experience with a reflex sight on a pistol. The only reflex sight I have shot through was the little one that was mounted on top of my ACOG on my service weapon. This will be for my FNX-45 Tactical which will eventually get a surefire light and silencer once it gets ...

Summary. Article Name. Holosun 407C Footprint. Description. Holosun 407C features the Trijicon RMR mounting standard. Here, you can see the dimensions and the photo of the footprint. Author. Andraž Gradišnik. Publisher Name.This is a Trijicon RMRcc vs RMR footprint thread. Its not about Holosun, DPP, Shield, where they are made etc. I went to put it in the other thread already started on the subject and guess what... its locked because of all the off topic BS. So if its not about the above RMRcc vs RMR slide cut/footprint please refrain. Thanks, DaveIf you are looking for a more affordable red dot sight with good performance and a wide range of features, the Holosun 507c may be the better choice. It is lighter, has a larger window, offers more brightness settings, and has a longer battery life than the Trijicon RMR.Whats the difference between Holosun 509t vs Trijicon RMR? The Holosun 509T features a titanium housing, multiple reticle options, a solar-powered battery with up to 5 years of life, and a lower price point. The Trijicon RMR, in contrast, has an aluminum housing, a single 3.25 MOA reticle, a 4-year battery life, and is generally more expensive. ...Brief overview of the new Holosun 507 Comp in comparison to the RMR. This is my personal opinion after several thousand rounds of use on both of these platfo...Durability Comparison: Holosun 508T vs Trijicon RMR. The durability of a pistol red dot matters tremendously – you need one that can withstand slide recoil and abuse. Here’s how the Holosun 508T and Trijicon RMR stack up: Feature: Holosun 508t: Trijicon RMR: Material: Titanium:© 2024 Google LLC. We'll cover the Trijicon RMR vs the Holosun RMR footprint lineup. Seeing if the $200+ is worth spending on the RMR or notBlog article here https://freedomgor...The RMR cut, as you can imagine, is the same optic cut as the Trijicon RMR sight and will also work with other optics that follow this footprint (Trijicon SRO, Holosun 507c, Swampfox Kingslayer ...

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after a year of testing both afield hunting and at the bco range we have enough feedback to come to a final decision between the two!what was the final verdi...In this video we go through an unboxing and overview of the new Holosun 508T-V2 pistol optic. This new pistol red dot sight is one of Holosun's premium produ...TFB TV's James Reeves silently judges you through the 507K's multilayer coated glass. Installation was a breeze. In no time at all, I had removed my SIG's slide, backed out the two plate screws from underneath, and replaced the cover plate and rear sight with the Holosun 507K. The loss of factory rear sight was a non-issue, as the Holosun ...Lock Mode, when activated, locks the buttons preventing inadvertent setting changes. Additional features include Holosun’s Super LED with up to 50k hour battery life, Solar Failsafe, Multi-Reticle System, and Shake Awake. The durable housing is made from 7075 Aluminum, uses an industry standard footprint, and houses the 1632 battery in a side ...The full sized RMR is. Just because it shares a similar name, doesn’t mean it carries the same quality. IMO, Trijicon is lacking these days. In the full sized optics, the Steiner MPS, Holosun 508T/509T, and Aimpoint ACRO outperform the RMR for durability and features.The Official USSOCOM Handgun Reflex Sight (MAS-D HRS) Add speed and precision to your self-defense, law enforcement, military, competition, or target pistol with an RMR ® —or with an upgrade to your stock iron sights. The Trijicon RMR ® is designed to be as durable as the legendary Trijicon ACOG ®, while also improving precision and accuracy with any style or caliber of firearm.The Romeo 1 pro and RMR are your only two choices. The question you should ask yourself is how much durability to do you. I feel like the Romeo 1 pro has better glass, better dot, and better battery placement. The RMR has durability going for it, that's about it. I think the 507c is about the same as a Romeo 1 pro so I feel like that's a ...So you will want to get the RMR optic plate from Walther. If you do not already have your RMR plate submit the Walther Optic Plate Request Form on Walther's website and choose your correct optics cut then choose the option that says - TRIJICON RMR, SRO & HOLOSUN 407C,507C & 508T, Riton X3 PRD: (Q-Series 2828359/PDPG1 2844079/PDPG2 5136196)Trijicon RMR. Even the top Holosun models are cheaper than the cheapest models of the RMR, i.e., Trijicon RMR is much more expensive than the Holosun 407C. This price difference is not unreasonable, though, since the RMR does come with an even wider variety of features than the 407C.

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30 Sept 2022 ... Going Red Dot on a Pistol, Trijicon SRO and Holosun 507C X2 w/ ACSS Vulcan reticle. ... Trijicon RMR vs Holosun 407C, 507C, 508T, 509T, & EPS.Winner. When it comes to battery life, both the Holosun 507c and the Trijicon RMR offer impressive performance. However, the Holosun 507c has a longer battery life of up to 50,000 hours than the Trijicon RMR's four years of continuous use. The Holosun 507c's solar panel feature also helps to further extend its battery life.Sym, a new platform that makes it easier for developers to integrate security and privacy workflows into their process, today announced that it has raised a $9 million Series A rou...El_Zalo. You get more features for less with Holosun. Bigger window, less tint, choice of cirlce/dot/both reticle (with the 507c), side load battery tray (on the V2's). RMRs are probably "better", but Holosuns are "good enough" for most people.However, Trijicon RMR is a better option if you’re okay with a lens containing tints. 3. Price. These two products’ costs fluctuate occasionally. But one thing is for sure: the Holosun 507c is always $150–$200 less expensive than the Trijicon RMR. Thus, Holosun 507c prevails in terms of the price range. 4.Qty 3 - 4-40 x .320 Trijicon RMR Optic Mounting Screws. Qty 3 - 4-40 x .280 FHB Holosun 507C /508T Optic Mounting Screws. Qty 3 - 4-40 x .345 FHB Trijicon SRO , CHPWS COMP / EDC XL Optic Mounting Screws. Qty 3 - 4-40 x .250 FHB Optic Mounting Screws. Qty 3 - Patented 416 Stainless Steel T-NutsAug 24, 2023 · RMR mount compatibility. When considering Holosun optics, it is important to assess their compatibility with RMR mounts. The RMR (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex) mount is a popular mounting system that allows for the installation of red dot sights on firearms. The compatibility between Holosun optics and RMR mounts plays a crucial role in ensuring ... 8. Holosun EPS Red or Green 6MOA, 2MOA, MRS - Best All Around Closed Emitter *Note: To install this optic without using the included Holosun RMR adapter plate you must purchase these Echelon EPS/EPS Carry Screws. These screws will let you eliminate the need for the Holosun RMR adapter plate, allowing your optic to sit lower on the slide.Feb 21, 2024 · The Holosun RMR is constructed with high-quality materials and is designed to withstand recoil, impact, and harsh environmental conditions. 5/5 - (56 vote) About Robert Carlson. Robert has over 15 years in Law Enforcement, with the past eight years as a senior firearms instructor for the largest police department in the South Eastern United States. Holosun optics are known for their durability and use of high quality materials. The optics from the 507 series are made with 7075 T6 aluminum, which make them lightweight and sturdy. Additionally, the optics for both 507K and the 507K X2 are fog and waterproof, with an IP67 rating. The sights have also been tested for use in harsh temperatures ...Price Comparison. In the end, I’ll tell you if I personally prefer the new kid on the scene (the 508t) or the old reliable (the RMR)… And you should have all the …Yes, both the Holosun 507C and 407C are designed to fit RMR cut mounting systems. 2. What is an RMR cut? An RMR cut is a specific mounting system designed to accommodate optics like the Trijicon RMR (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex). See 3,000+ New Gun Deals HERE. ….

General Comparison. As a shooter well-versed in collimator sights, comparing the Holosun Sub-compact HS507K-X2 1x 2 and the Trijicon RMR Type 2 RM01 LED 1x65mm is crucial to determine which aligns ...17 Jan 2024 ... Comments3 · Holosun 507 Comp vs. · The BEST Optic: Trijicon SRO vs Holosun 507 Comp · Holosun 507K & 507C Comparison [Plus Green Dot] &midd...Holosun makes the battery replacement fairly easy, with the battery tray and not having to remove the optic to swap the battery. However they do use CR1632s, which do not have as much Ah as the larger CR2032s used in some others. ... and I had a Trijicon RMR **** out in less than 100 rounds. Reactions: Mike55. Save Share. Like.Dec 17, 2020 · The only "feature" that Holosun can claim actually helps one to shoot better is its choice of reticles and that's a big subjective. The RMR's window is a problem if your index sucks out of the holster. Holosun's window ain't much larger. If you want to step it up you'll need an SRO, DPP, or Romeo 3 Max. Lock Mode, when activated, locks the buttons preventing inadvertent setting changes. Additional features include Holosun's Super LED with up to 50k hour battery life, Solar Failsafe, Multi-Reticle System, and Shake Awake. The durable housing is made from 7075 Aluminum, uses an industry standard footprint, and houses the 1632 battery in a side ...Top 7 RMR Footprint Holosun Optics for the Canik TP9 - Larger Optics. Below are the best RMR Footprint Holosun Red & Green dot optics you can mount on your Canik TP9 optics ready model. You will need either the Canik TP9 RMR Adapter plate or the Calculated Kinetics Canik TP9 RMR Adapter Plate to fit these on your pistol.Trijicon RMR. The lens clarity on the Trijicon RMR is also very good. Now when you look through this sight, you do get a slightly blue tint. Trijicon says that they add this tint on purpose because it gives you …Read dozens of our recent 5 star reviews here. If you have a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 2.0 Optics Ready version and want to know the best Holosun Red & Green dot sights you can mount on it and how to mount them then keep reading. In this guide we are going to tell you which Holosun optics fit the M&P Shield 2.0, the features and benefits of ...Top 7 RMR Footprint Holosun Optics for the FN Five Seven MRD. Below are the best Red & Green Dot Holosun Optics you can mount on your FN Five Seven MRD. The will fit onto your Trijicon RMR plate that is included with your FN Five Seven MRD. 1. Holosun 407C Green & Red Dot - Best Budget Option. Buy the 407C At The Best Price Trijicon rmr vs holosun, We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us., Apr 21, 2022 · Trijicon 6.5 Red RMR Type 2 2. Holosun HE407K-GR-X2 3. ... Possibly the very first pistol-mounted red dot to see widespread adoption, the Trijicon RMR Type 2 is a durable, dependable and high ... , Kind of an apples and oranges comparison as the 509T is an enclosed sight and the RMR is not. Both are good sights I think you just need to decide if you want an enclosed emitter or not. The 509T also uses a different mounting method so if your pistol is cut for an RMR you will need a plate to attach the 509T. I haven't milled my Glock 20 yet ..., Trijicon RMRcc Vs Holosun 507k: Head-to-Head Analysis. September 11, 2023 by GunsGuide. The world of red-dot optics has seen a vast expansion in the last decade, with several stand-out options vying for the top spot. Today, we will focus on two leading players in this arena – the Trijicon RMRcc and the Holosun 507k., Thanks for the info. I just struck a deal on eBay for a new sealed Holosun 507K for $249 shipped. I think that's a really fair price. Now to sell the newly replaced Romeo zero with shroud Sig just sent back to me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk., Red Dot Fitment: Trijicon RMR / SRO, Holosun HE407C / HE407C X2 / HE507C / HE507C X2 / HS407C / HS407C X2 / HS507C / HS507C X2, Swampfox Kingslayer / Liberty / Justice. Our red dot sights are meant to be installed from the left to the right (with the muzzle facing forward). The dovetail has a progressive taper to allow for easier install., The Trijicon RMR (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex) is highly regarded for its ability to provide fast, both-eyes-open target acquisition and accurate aiming with any style or caliber of weapon. Trijicon has integrated its legendary amber triangle aiming reticle into the RMR platform, resulting in the ideal combination of speed and accuracy., So you will want to get the RMR optic plate from Walther. If you do not already have your RMR plate submit the Walther Optic Plate Request Form on Walther's website and choose your correct optics cut then choose the option that says - TRIJICON RMR, SRO & HOLOSUN 407C,507C & 508T, Riton X3 PRD: (Q-Series 2828359/PDPG1 2844079/PDPG2 5136196), Thanks for the info. I just struck a deal on eBay for a new sealed Holosun 507K for $249 shipped. I think that's a really fair price. Now to sell the newly replaced Romeo zero with shroud Sig just sent back to me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk., The RMR® Type 2 Adjustable LED sight puts the illumination control in the user's hands. Easy-to-use buttons on the sides of the optic allow the user to adjust the illumination brightness, toggle between manual and automatic modes, and power down the RMR for storage. The automatic mode functions the same as the LED RMR version., RMR vs Holosun: Comparing popular red dot sights. The world of red dot sights has seen significant advancements in recent years, with two brands emerging as frontrunners: Trijicon's RMR and Holosun's 507C. Both sights have garnered a dedicated following among shooting enthusiasts, and the debate over which is superior is ongoing., Own an RMR, don't have a holosun so take it for what it's worth. Battery life is phenomenal on the RMR. Like people said, change it once a year for safe measure. People complain about features of battery compartments but cmon you're taking it off the mount once a year. Shouldn't take you a lot of rounds or time to re zero., The Holosun SCS 320 is a DeltaPoint Pro footprint optic. This means it will fit on any DeltaPoint Pro or Romeo 1 Pro slide or adapter plate. It is marketed as being the best direct fit enclosed emitter optic for the Sig P320. Hence the name SCS 320. Holosun SCS 320 Intended Use. The Holosun SCS 320 is regular sized pistol red dot., When you compare them to other options like Leupold, Trijicon, or others you will find prices are much better and these have more features. 7 Best Springfield XD-M Elite OSP Full Size & Compact Holosun Optics - …, Read dozens of our recent 5 star reviews here. Today we’re going to review the Holosun red dot pistol lineup with the RMR footprint. We’ll cover the 407C, 507C, 508T, 509T, and the EPS the features and performance of each sight, and help you decide which one is the best fit for your needs. So let’s get started!, Read dozens of our recent 5 star reviews here. The purpose of this page is to help you figure out which Holosun optics fit your pistol and which adapter plates you need (if any). If you see your pistol below, click the link and it will take you to the fitment article for your specific gun. We update this regularly, if there's something you don ..., This item: C+H Precision Optics Adapter Plate for SIG P320 with Romeo 1 Pro Optic Ready Cut and Trijicon RMR/SRO, Holosun 407C/507C/508C/508T . $70.71 $ 70. 71. Get it as soon as Saturday, Apr 27. In Stock. Sold by Home Heroes, LLC and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. +, The MR920 is a feature-packed, compact-sized pistol that is designed to work with existing G19 holsters, magazines, and gear. The MR920's frame features configurable ergonomics. Interchangeable backstraps allow shooters to adjust the grip angle to fit their natural point of aim. An extended beavertail and aggressive trigger guard undercut ..., Here at Freedom Gorilla we know finding the perfect optic can be confusing, especially when you don't have it in your hands to see in person. One of the confusing things is understanding the differences in size between EPS Full Size and the EPS Carry. In short the EPS Carry is a narrower than th., CHPWS RMR to Holosun 509T Mount Black Trijicon RMR RMR-509T Anodized. $70.45 CHPWS STACCATO DUO ADAP HOLO 509T - STID-509T-ST. $134.95 CHPWS. store_mall_directory CHPWS CHPWS STACCATO DUO ADAP HOLO 509T - STID-509T-ST. C&H Precision Weapons Staccato Duo, Holosun 509T ..., SIG P320 RX Series / Pro Series / AXG Scorpion w/ R1P / DPP CUT w/ RMR / Holosun Holes - Filler Plate for Trijicon RMR / SRO / RCR / Holosun 407C / 507C / 507Comp / 508T / C&H EDC-XL / COMP $ 60.45. THE MOST MODULAR, RUGGED, DURABLE, RELIABLE AND MOST WIDELY USED AFTERMARKET OPTICS ADAPTER PLATE., These will mount to your FN 502 by using the Trijicon RMR plate. 1. Holosun 407C Green & Red Dot - Best Budget Option. Buy the 407C At The Best Price. The most budget friendly option is going to be the 407C. The 407C has a 2 MOA dot only. The housing is aluminum., The Trijicon RMR Type 2, Holosun HS507C X2, Leupold DeltaPoint Pro, Vortex Venom, and Aimpoint ACRO P-1 are all great options for your Hellcat Pro, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses. The Trijicon RMR Type 2 is a premium option that is highly durable and versatile, with a patented, adjustable LED system and a precise 3.25 MOA dot ..., The RMR footprint consists of 2 screw holes and 2 front recoil lug holes in the corners. Some slides or plates will have recoil lugs to utilize the matching holes on the optic while other designs do not. Optics that utilize this footprint include: Trijicon - RMR and SRO; Holosun - 507C, 407C, 508T, 507 Competition; Swampfox - Kingslayer ..., Holosun 508T-V2: Unboxing and First Impressions vs. Trijicon RMR - YouTube. Range Day. 8.4K subscribers. Subscribed. 201. 12K views 3 years ago. In this …, If you want the best then trijicon rmr is your top choice. www.officerresource.com WiskyT :whistling: ... Trijicon is the most proven but Holosun is quickly becoming a full featured favorite with innovation vs Trijicon being stagnant. Swampfox is relatively new to the market but I am very pleased with both the product and price point., Holosun 507 Comp vs 507C X2 Footprint. The Holosun 507 Comp and the 507C X2 both have a Trijicon RMR footprint. This is a very common footprint and this means that the 507 Comp or the 507C X2 will fit on any slide cut for a Trijicon RMR or any adapter plate that is cut for the RMR footprint., So, gather around and get your screechin' keys ready - today we're torture testing some pricey ass scopes. Specifically the Aimpoint CompM5, EOTech EXPS 3-0, Trijicon MRO and TA02 ACOG, and Sig Sauer Romeo 8T to subject to a series of stress tests to determine just what type of abuse these bad boys can stand up to. Group Shot of Destroyed ..., Get ratings and reviews for the top 11 gutter companies in San Diego, CA. Helping you find the best gutter companies for the job. Expert Advice On Improving Your Home All Projects ..., A 407/507 is more than rugged enough for EDC. For a bit more rugged holosun they have the 508T with a shape closer to the trijicon and made out of titanium. The rmr is the gold standard for ruggedness simply because it has been around for awhile and lives up to its reputation, kind of like aimpoints for ARs., Keep an eye out on r/GunAccessoriesForSale, You can sometimes pick up a used one for a decent price. Rmr holds the patent on the strongest frame design regarding the lens area, has 4 water drain holes, some kickass autobrightness, and doesnt auto-off like the eotech. The buttons also dont peel off., Fun fact: It seems like the MOS team and Trijicon must have coordinated. The RMR goes on perfectly, and their Suppressor sights sit just right. I have both and I'll likely purchase Holosun going forward. The 508 is appealing because it doesn't look like a NASCAR with Holosun branding on the side like the 507 does., Trijicon. They're more expensive, but they're not made in China and they're battle tested. Reddit loves Holosun, and i have nothing against them, they're innovative, reliable, and cheaper. But I trust trust Trijicon implicitly, they've had years of abuse in some tough environments at this point and I'd buy American any chance I can.