Code p0430 nissan

I do not want to do the 'trick' of tricking the system with an 02 spacer. P0430 Nissan - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2. Possible causes. - Three way catalyst converter Bank 2. - Exhaust tube. - Intake air leaks. - Fuel injectors may be faulty. - Fuel injector leaks. - Spark plugs may be faulty.

P0430 DTC code. :sickly:I have a 2005 Frontier 4.0l Nismo that has had just about every known issue with the Gen 2 Frontiers. I have the ever returning P0430, catalyst below threshold. I brought it to an independent nissan shop and they told me it needed a new ds cat, as well as one of the ds o2 sensors was reporting a high voltage which could ...Code P0430 2001 Ford Escape XLT V6. Code P0430. I know this code refers to the converter on bank 2. My question is the engine runs great even when the engine light comes on. I had an issue with cold start rough idle, but now it's fine. There is no power loss issue, no acceleration issue, no stalling issue. It ...Spacing the O2 sensor further out of the exhaust stream reduces the ability of the sensor to read the exhaust so the response slows down. If it slows down enough, it looks like the cat is doing its job and the P0420/430 code might clear. The problem is that if a sensor is failing, it looks like everything is fine.echo_nine Discussion starter. 1049 posts · Joined 2010. #1 · Jun 11, 2011. Hey guys anyone have these come up at the same time. P0420 is bank sensor 1 malfunction and p0430 is bank sensor 2 malfunction. So somewhere from the headers to my rear o2 sensors something is bad on both sides. Could it be cracked manifolds letting in air and making ...The P0420 and the P0430 codes are caused by catalyst inefficiency. Replacing your catalytic converter is costly, so, knowing if a new catalytic converter is needed pays off. Your car’s exhaust system (below) comprises: a catalytic converter (s), at least two oxygen sensors and exhaust pipes that route the engine’s exhaust from the …

This page is meant to help you troubleshoot the Nissan Pathfinder P0420 trouble code. It covers the P0420 code’s meaning, symptoms, causes, and possible solutions. P0420 is the most common OBDII code and is virtually never a breakdown risk. ... The bank 2 version of this code is P0430.scr38. 5212 posts · Joined 2004. #2 · Jan 22, 2011. Codes 420 and 430 are low catalyst efficiency. This is usually a sign that the converters that are welded to the manifolds are going bad, the O2 sensors are bad or cracked exhaust manifolds. t. These items are covered by the 8 year/80,000 mile emissions warranty.To diagnose the P0430 2010 Nissan Sentra code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. It is common for most auto repair shops to charge between $75 and $150 per hour.P0430 Code - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2. How to Fix. Check the 'Possible Causes' listed above. Visually inspect the related wiring harness and connectors. Check for damaged components and look for broken, bent, pushed out, or corroded connector pins. ... P0430 Nissan Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2 ...2005 Nissan Titan, P0420 P0430. I have a 2005 Nissan Titan LE, 5.6L V8. I have engine codes that came up P0430 and P0420. They also repeat twice.

Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL 2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S. Re: Both P0420 and P0430 codes at same time - 03 QX4. Quote; Post by VStar650CL » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:57 am. P0420/P0430 with no other codes almost always mean your cats are shot, not your sensors. There are other conditions that can cause it such as exhaust leaks in the vicinity of the ...MIL Comes On with DTC P0430 or DTC P0430 with P030X, P219A, P219B (With Software Update) Supersedes 19-072, dated July 5, 2019, to revise the information highlighted in yellow ... Code Failed Part Number 1255F8 Update the PGM-FI software. 0.2 hr 03214 03203 37805-RLV-315 A Do the cylinder A/F test. 0.1 hr B Replace the fuel injectors. 2.6 hr CNissan OBD II P0430 Trouble Code. Nissan Maximas, from the late 1990s into the 2000s, frequently faced P0430 trouble codes. The main culprit is usually a failed catalytic converter. A complete replacement of the cat assembly is required to clear the code reliably on these cars.This page is meant to help you troubleshoot the Nissan Pulsar P0430 trouble code. It covers the P0430 code's meaning, symptoms, causes, and possible solutions. P0430 is an emissions-related trouble code and is virtually never a breakdown risk. P0430 is usually caused by a catalytic converter issue or a bad O2 sensor. Table of Contents

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To resolve the P0171 code in a Nissan Pathfinder, the following steps can be taken: Clean or replace clogged or leaking fuel injectors. Repair or replace a malfunctioning fuel pressure regulator. Clean or replace the MAF sensor if it is dirty or faulty. Fix any intake air leaks by tightening or replacing damaged components.2001 Nissan Frontier SE V6 super charger Check engine light (trouble code p0430) checked by auto parts store Suggestions: replace catalytic converter ". Knock sensor w/p032 ". Oxygen 02 sensor " Bank …Re: 2015 qx80 p0430 and p0420 pending. Post by VStar650CL » Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:21 am. When they're by themselves, those codes always mean dying cats. When they're pending it means they didn't reoccur on a second trip, so it's likely the cats are "on the edge" and you have some time before they get really bad. Someone else will have to …Labor: 1.0. The cost to diagnose the C1704 Nissan code is 1.0 hour of labor. The diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops vary depending on the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. Most auto repair shops charge between $75 and $150 per hour.Posted on Nov 04, 2008. SOURCE: obd 2 codes p0761 p0420. P0420 - Catalyst System Low Efficiency, possible worn out cat converter, if truck is low miles may be sensor issue. P0761 - Shift Solenoid C Performance or Stuck Off , at some time the transmission had a sticky shift (solenoid #C) solenoid, has the trans ever been serviced, if over 60,000 ...

Left Downstream Sensor Replacement for Code P0430. Nissan Frontier 2005-2020. Left Downstream Sensor Replacement for Code P0430. Nissan Frontier 2005-2020.2002 Nissan Sentra Got A P0430 Code. I Got A P0430 Code And I Wanna Make Sure It Is Not My Cat Thats Gone Wrong. I Want To Check The O2 Sensors But I Dont Know What The Voltage...2000 Nissan Maxima, PLEASE HELP!!!!!! P0430. I have a 2000 Nissan Maxima and it runs and drives great except for in the morning. The car has one code and it is the p0430, catalyst efficiency bank 2. In the morning the idle is really high and it runs good, but when you put it in drive it will die out sometimes, but it will start right back up.P0430 is a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) for "Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)". This can happen for multiple reasons and a mechanic needs to diagnose the specific cause for this code to be triggered in your situation. Our certified mobile mechanics can come to your home or office to perform the Check Engine Light diagnostic ...Last Updated 2023-11-21. Master Mechanical Engineer. We recommend Torque Pro. Table of Contents. What Does Code P0430 Mean? Where is the P0430 sensor located? What are the common causes of code P0430? Get Help with P0430. What Does Code P0430 Mean? NOTE: While this guide is specific to Nissan vehicles, P0430 is a generic OBD2 diagnostic code.I checked the codes and had a logged P0430 code, and a pending P0300 and P0306 code. ... Nissan engines been known to have sucked the broken pieces back into the cylinders and had a catastrophic failure. Clint . The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not take from somebody else.The cost of repairing a P0430 code depends hugely on what’s causing it. As mentioned, you’ll need to replace the relevant part – whatever it turns out to be. Below, you’ll find estimates of what you can expect to pay. Replacement catalytic converter – $1,500.When the Powertrain control module ( PCM) throws a P0430 fault code, it means the bank 2 downstream O2 sensor has detected that the catalytic converter efficiency is below the manufacturers’ predetermined threshold. The P0430 diagnostic trouble code is generic, meaning it can appear on any vehicle type.Re: 2001 I30 with code P0430 (ninfanti) Post by loystock » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:03 pm. For OEM parts, best place to buy @ 25% off MSRP is at IoS (Infiniti of Scottsdale) - infinitipartsUSA.com, one if NICO sponsors. However for spark plugs and O2 sensors, the cheapest OEM and quality replacement parts are from NGK.com a.k.a. sparkplugs. com.Trouble code P0430 displays when the electronic control unit (ECU) detects that your catalytic converter is performing below the threshold that it should be operating at. One of the functions that your ECU performs is monitoring the catalytic converter closely. When the catalytic converter is performing below threshold, the check engine light ...

2000 Nissan Maxima, PLEASE HELP!!!!!! P0430. I have a 2000 Nissan Maxima and it runs and drives great except for in the morning. The car has one code and it is the p0430, catalyst efficiency bank 2. In the morning the idle is really high and it runs good, but when you put it in drive it will die out sometimes, but it will start right back up.

Here's a good P0420 diagnostic order for the Nissan Sentra: 1. Check for Other Codes. The first thing you want to do when trying to fix P0420 in the Sentra is to verify there aren't any other trouble codes. Three types of codes can give clues as to what's going on with your car. Misfire Codes.P0420 NISSAN – Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1; P0430 NISSAN – Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2; The Fix. You can eliminate the codes by using a spark plug non-fouler which tricks your engine computer to think that everything is working fine.Some common causes of code P0340 could include the following-. Damaged, burnt, shorted, disconnected, or corroded wiring and/or connectors. Defective camshaft position sensor. Use of substandard, aftermarket camshaft position sensor (s) Mechanical issues such as damaged or stretched timing chains, which is common on many Nissan applications.This page is meant to help you troubleshoot the Nissan Serena P0430 trouble code. It covers the P0430 code's meaning, symptoms, causes, and possible solutions. P0430 is an emissions-related trouble code and is virtually never a breakdown risk. P0430 is usually caused by a catalytic converter issue or a bad O2 sensor. Table of ContentsHi, Ive had a P0430 code thrown with TW CATALYST SYS-B2 code thrown. I know this is a difficult code to analyse. However I took the catalytic convertor apart and it seems the insides are all intact. The nissan dealer tells me its the rear catalytic convertor but everything Ive read points to the front convertor (bank2).P0430 is a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) for "Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)". This can happen for multiple reasons and a mechanic needs to diagnose the specific cause for this code to be triggered in your situation. Our certified mobile mechanics can come to your home or office to perform the Check Engine Light diagnostic ...Feb 13, 2019 ... I found that means the bank 1 front catalytic converter is operating below expected threshold. It determines this by comparing the switching ...OBDII Code P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1 | Nissanhelp.com. Bank 1 refers to cylinder 1. So locate where cyl. 1 side exhaust that leads to your Cat. OBDII Code P0430 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2 | Nissanhelp.com. Bank 2 refers to Cyl. 2 opposite side of Cyl. 1.

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A little lesson on what the Nissan Armada, Infinity QX45, and Nissan Titan have in common as far as issues and fixes. Code P0430 is catalyst deficiency, ban...This 2005 Nissan Xterra runs great, except for that pesky Check Engine light is on!In this case we have a classic P0430 - "Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshol...What is the Cost to Diagnose the Code P0430 2009 Nissan Sentra? Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P0430 2009 Nissan Sentra code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type.I have a 2000 Nissan Maxima with a code of P0430, Catalysts efficiency below threshold, bank 2. What is causing this & what is needed to repair. Hello! This code is set when the rear oxygen sensor signal closely mirrors the front oxygen sensor signal. THere is an oxygen sensor in front of and also to the rear of the catalytic converter.scr38. 5212 posts · Joined 2004. #2 · Jan 22, 2011. Codes 420 and 430 are low catalyst efficiency. This is usually a sign that the converters that are welded to the manifolds are going bad, the O2 sensors are bad or cracked exhaust manifolds. t. These items are covered by the 8 year/80,000 mile emissions warranty.2001 Nissan Frontier SE V6 super charger Check engine light (trouble code p0430) checked by auto parts store Suggestions: replace catalytic converter ". Knock sensor w/p032 ". ... My 2006 Nissan Frontier starts idling below 500 RPM and cannot move intermittently. Letting it idle like this for a while will eventually work itself out.14 posts · Joined 2012. #10 · Feb 17, 2012. I had P0174 fixed front sensor but 5-600 miles now P0430. As stated. 05 Pathy. 97K miles. Threw a 174 code lean bank 2. I decided to fix myself since I have the CD manual. Which was a mistake. I should have just payed the $100 to the dealer. So it took awhile as I ran through a Lucas fuel treatment.P0430 DTC code. :sickly:I have a 2005 Frontier 4.0l Nismo that has had just about every known issue with the Gen 2 Frontiers. I have the ever returning P0430, catalyst below threshold. I brought it to an independent nissan shop and they told me it needed a new ds cat, as well as one of the ds o2 sensors was reporting a high voltage which could ...I've had this trouble code P0430 on my 2002 QX4 for a few years now. If I clear the code it comes back within a day of driving. Nissan told me they would inspect for $90, that sometimes its the gaskets which only cost a few bucks, but if it's a catalytic converter would be about $900.00 to replace. They also recommended going with a Nissan cat ...Check engine light is on and I get a P0430 code Bank 2 … read more. Ron Z. Auto Tech. Vocational, Technical or Tra... 26,002 satisfied customers. Engine codes P0430 P0420 and P1143. Loss of power, poor gas. Yes. Loss of power, poor gas mileage, and when accelerating slowly has some shifting problems. … read more. ….

4) I cleared my CEL code, and all was good after the install of the new sensors. 5) The Osiris software does the flashing, Cipher does the logging and clearing of the CEL. incidentally, you can buy a $30 scanner from anywhere and get rid of your codes.P0420 NISSAN – Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1; P0430 NISSAN – Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2; The Fix. You can eliminate the codes by using a spark plug non-fouler which tricks your engine computer to think that everything is working fine.P0430 2007 Nissan Murano Code - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2. How to Fix. Check the 'Possible Causes' listed above. Visually inspect the related wiring harness and connectors. Check for damaged components and look for broken, bent, pushed out, or corroded connector pins.The dead cat codes, P0420 and P0430 no longer registered. The engine ran very well, idled smoothly and could rev to 6k rpm. But the random misfire code, P0300 remained. In fact, it appeared much more often and continued to flash much longer.Code P0430 is catalyst deficiency, ban... A little lesson on what the Nissan Armada, Infinity QX45, and Nissan Titan have in common as far as issues and fixes. Code P0430 is catalyst deficiency ...P0430 is the left bank (B2) in the FSM, which is defined as the left side as looking forward (Driver's side). Here is my suggestion. Get your hand up under the SC/intake and fetch the knock sensor out of there (this will require dexterity and a small wrench, or a helper with smaller hands).The P0430 code is a diagnostic trouble code that indicates an issue with the catalytic converter on a Nissan vehicle. The most common cause of the Nissan Titan P0430 …The P0430 Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) is your car's way of telling you that its catalytic converter efficiency for bank 2 has dipped below what's acceptable. Sitting snugly near engine bank 2, if your vehicle’s catalytic converter starts slacking off, due to age, deuteriation, or contaminant build-up, it won’t scrub those exhaust fumes as ...The P0430 code in a Nissan 370Z will often be thrown if one of your car’s oxygen sensors is not functioning correctly. There are rarely drivability issues associated … Code p0430 nissan, Tech Talk. Repair Questions, What is the Cost to Diagnose the Code P0430 2009 Nissan Sentra? Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P0430 2009 Nissan Sentra code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type., The most likely cause of a P0430 code is an inefficient upstream (or front) catalytic converter on the left side of the vehicle. Usually when an oxygen sensor is at fault, there is also a stored DTC for the oxygen sensor, or a leak in the exhaust near the sensor. Testing for the cause would involve scantool monitoring the rich-lean cycles of ..., SAVE MONEY and buy Motor Oils and Car Parts online - FREE SHIPPING!!! RECOMMENDED BY THE PEOPLES GARAGEhttp://amzn.to/1ck3B2wHow to Fix a P0420 or P0430 Code..., Since 2012, Nissan’s slogan has been “Innovation That Excites” in the United States. For the two years preceding 2012, the slogan “Innovation For All” was used in the United States..., The Code P0430 is for the Bank 2 Catt converter. If you have less than 80k miles, then the catt converter would be covered under warranty. If you have more than 80k miles, then you would have to absorb the costs. ... 2005 Nissan xTerra I have a P0430 code, and it seems this could be several issues ranging from fuel, to ignition, to vacuum, with ..., What is the Cost to Diagnose the Code P0430 2007 Nissan Sentra? Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P0430 2007 Nissan Sentra code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type., Tech Notes. As the code description implies, the P0430 code means that the vehicle's control module has detected that the three-way catalytic converter is not working properly (is not as efficient as the factory is expecting). Replacing the oxygen (O2) sensors may sometimes fix the code, but in most cases, the catalytic convert needs to be ..., Question is, has anybody had this code fixed by replacing a part other than the Catalytic converter. Sort by Oldest first. DryHeat. 2812 posts · Joined 2005. #2 · Jun 5, 2007. Possible causes P0430 (Bank 2) - Catalyst system efficiency. below threshold: Three way catalyst (manifold) Exhaust tube., =====Claim your FREE error code eraser 👉 https://free.nonda.co 👈== How to Fix P0430 Error Code ====Error Code P0430 Saving Repair ..., The P0430 code is a common diagnostic trouble code (DTC) that may appear on the onboard computer of your Nissan Xterra. This subheading will delve into what exactly this code means and how it affects your vehicle’s performance. Answer: The P0430 code refers to a malfunction in the catalytic converter’s efficiency., Q:My 2007 Nissan Titan had the SES light come on last week. I borrowed a friend's OBD scanner, and the resulting code was P0430. I borrowed a friend's OBD scanner, and the resulting code was P0430., A code P0430 Nissan may mean that one or more of the following has happened: The catalytic converter is no longer functioning properly An oxygen sensor is not reading (functioning) properly There is an exhaust leak . Possible Solutions. First, inspect for exhaust leaks. Next step is to measure the voltage at the oxygen sensor on Bank 2., The most common fix for P0430 in the Nissan 370Z is a new catalytic converter, followed by replacing the Oxygen sensor. Before taking your 370Z into an exhaust shop for a new catalytic converter, let’s ensure that’s what you need. Here’s a good P0430 diagnostic order for the Nissan 370Z: 1. Check for Other Codes., 14 posts · Joined 2012. #10 · Feb 17, 2012. I had P0174 fixed front sensor but 5-600 miles now P0430. As stated. 05 Pathy. 97K miles. Threw a 174 code lean bank 2. I decided to fix myself since I have the CD manual. Which was a mistake. I should have just payed the $100 to the dealer. So it took awhile as I ran through a Lucas fuel treatment., Code P0430 2006 Nissan Altima Sedan Tech Notes. As the code description implies the P0430 code means that the vehicle's control module has detected that the three-way catalytic converter is not working properly (is not as efficient as the factory is expecting). Replacing the oxygen (O2) sensors may sometimes fix the code, but in most cases the ..., Pops. Bad Gas can cause that code to appear so you might want to consider resetting it and see if it returns. If it does return, I've heard that a bad MAF Sensor can also cause it but if you're only reporting P0430 (Bank 2) and not P0420 (Bank 1) then it can likely be the Bank 2 Cat gone bad. A new OEM Cat will likely cost $150-$200 for the ..., Even slight variations in the air/fuel mixture will cause the converter temperature to rise significantly. The “Catalytic Converter Efficiency” Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P0420 and P0430, are among the top 10 DTCs technicians face. And while the description might imply a failed converter, odds are the ultimate fault lies somewhere else., The most common fix for P0430 in the Nissan NV200 is a new catalytic converter, followed by replacing the Oxygen sensor. Before taking your NV200 into an exhaust shop for a new catalytic converter, let’s ensure that’s what you need. Here’s a good P0430 diagnostic order for the Nissan NV200: 1. Check for Other Codes., This page is meant to help you troubleshoot the Nissan Versa P0430 trouble code. It covers the P0430 code's meaning, symptoms, causes, and possible solutions. P0430 is an emissions-related trouble code and is virtually never a breakdown risk. P0430 is usually caused by a catalytic converter issue or a bad O2 sensor. Table of Contents, 2007 Nissan Titan P0430 Code - Truck Trend Garage. ... My 2007 Nissan Titan had the SES light come on last week. I borrowed a friend's OBD scanner, and the resulting code was P0430., P0420 and P0430 Nissan Pathfinder 2012 4.0 V6. As the title indicates, I am throwing the P0420 and P0430 codes at the same time. I cleared them a few times to be sure, but they keep coming back after 20-30 miles. I'm finding various info, looking to see if anyone here can help. I have recently replaced my crank position sensor, which caused ..., The most likely cause of a P0430 code is an inefficient upstream (or front) catalytic converter on the left side of the vehicle. Usually when an oxygen sensor is at fault, there is also a stored DTC for the oxygen sensor, or a leak in the exhaust near the sensor. Testing for the cause would involve scantool monitoring the rich-lean cycles of ..., 2 Answers. 0 votes. answered Aug 4, 2017 by anonymous. most likely the catalytic converter is bad, since the after is a 2012 it should be under warranty or there are another issue. 0 votes. answered Sep 15, 2021 by OBDIITech (8.2k points) P0430 NISSAN Code - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2. Read more:, To diagnose the P0430 2008 Nissan Maxima code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. It is common for most auto repair shops to charge between $75 and $150 per hour., AZ-Ted. 3285 posts · Joined 2007. #7 · Nov 13, 2012. FWIW, I have been running my vehicle for almost a year with both the P0420 and P0430 codes. I know the cats are bad - again, and I'm waiting until it's time for my emissions test (in the springtime) before replacing them., P0430 definition: Catalyst system efficiency below threshold (Bank 2). Issue Severity: MODERATE- Extended driving with this code can cause internal engine damage. Repair Urgency: Get this code fixed as soon as possible. Diagnosis: It is important to complete the entire diagnostic process when diagnosing the P0430 code., Feb 13, 2019 ... I found that means the bank 1 front catalytic converter is operating below expected threshold. It determines this by comparing the switching ..., The most common fix for P0430 in the Nissan 370Z is a new catalytic converter, followed by replacing the Oxygen sensor. Before taking your 370Z into an exhaust shop for a new catalytic converter, let's ensure that's what you need. Here's a good P0430 diagnostic order for the Nissan 370Z: 1. Check for Other Codes., The most common fix for P0430 in the Nissan Patrol is a new catalytic converter, followed by replacing the Oxygen sensor. Before taking your Patrol into an exhaust shop for a new catalytic converter, let’s ensure that’s what you need. Here’s a good P0430 diagnostic order for the Nissan Patrol: 1. Check for Other Codes., In this episode, we diagnose the dreaded P0420 & P0430 codes and ultimately replace both Catalytic Converters. There is bonus footage at the end where we fin..., Check engine light is on and I get a P0430 code Bank 2 … read more. Ron Z. Auto Tech. Vocational, Technical or Tra... 26,002 satisfied customers. Engine codes P0430 P0420 and P1143. Loss of power, poor gas. Yes. Loss of power, poor gas mileage, and when accelerating slowly has some shifting problems. … read more., Tech Notes. As the code description implies the P0430 code means that the vehicle's control module has detected that the three-way catalytic converter is not working properly (is not as efficient as the factory is expecting). Replacing the oxygen (O2) sensors may sometimes fix the code, but in most cases the catalytic convert needs to be ...